Interim Report: Lover Revealed
Mar. 9th, 2007 02:14 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jmc_bksOkay, I'm about two-thirds of the way through Lover Revealed. It has turned out to be a bit more work to read than earlier Ward books, I think in part because I didn't feel engaged by Butch & Marissa as characters at the outset. But the books is growing on me.
I've been resisting the urge to read![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
sarahf's thoughts on LR; I know she'll have lots to say that will make me think and want to re-read, but I want to get through it once without outside influence.
Marissa, especially, has grown on me. I like that she's standing up for herself in her world and with Butch. Butch's thing for the BDB as family makes me like him better; earlier in the book I was wishing he'd just stop whining and angsting. Love the glimpses of V's conflict and feelings about Marissa & Butch.
The miscommunications that create conflict between M&B are pretty irritating. They both deserve headslaps and an admonishment to talk to each other! No, instead, they get hurt attitudes and go off, hermit-like.
Marissa's wonderment at Butch's equipment -- blech. Because a 300 year old female would never have seen a penis...in the flesh or in pictures or anything. Maybe Ward was being ironic, poking fun at a romance staple, the heroine's amazement upon seeing her lover's works, but if so, I missed it.
John seems really disconnected now that Tohrment has disappeared, and I was a little surprised that Wrath let him get away with hiding out the way he did, but it looks like that's changing.
While I think Ward is improving as a writer, she does some stuff that irritates me stylistically:
Grammar quibbles: Hopefully is an adverb. It should never be used to start a sentence such as "Hopefully, something will happen." One may do something hopefully (She peered hopefully into the fridge, looking for a leftover slice of pie) but it can't hang out by itself. I guess the implied construction is "I am hopeful that..." but it is lazy writing to shorthand it down to "hopefully", IMO. And ending sentences with prepositions? Another pet peeve. Yeah, I know I do it sometimes when I blog without proof reading...except that kind of thing shouldn't make it past proofing, crit group, revisions and an editor.
A third stylistic thing: I hate that she had V tell B&M what it would take to turn him on the page, in front of the reader, and made it clear how disturbing that information was to them...but didn't share it with the reader, so we didn't know what was coming until the process started several scenes later. Was there supposed to be an element of surprise or suspense for the reader? I don't know. It seemed pretty standard for the genre; I was not particularly surprised or shocked by it, and thought in retrospect that the M&B response was overdone and that piece of the scene was awkward.
This is the first book in which the lessers seemed like something more than cardboard cut-out villains, which is a Good Thing, IMO.
I've been resisting the urge to read
sarahf's thoughts on LR; I know she'll have lots to say that will make me think and want to re-read, but I want to get through it once without outside influence. Marissa, especially, has grown on me. I like that she's standing up for herself in her world and with Butch. Butch's thing for the BDB as family makes me like him better; earlier in the book I was wishing he'd just stop whining and angsting. Love the glimpses of V's conflict and feelings about Marissa & Butch.
The miscommunications that create conflict between M&B are pretty irritating. They both deserve headslaps and an admonishment to talk to each other! No, instead, they get hurt attitudes and go off, hermit-like.
Marissa's wonderment at Butch's equipment -- blech. Because a 300 year old female would never have seen a penis...in the flesh or in pictures or anything. Maybe Ward was being ironic, poking fun at a romance staple, the heroine's amazement upon seeing her lover's works, but if so, I missed it.
John seems really disconnected now that Tohrment has disappeared, and I was a little surprised that Wrath let him get away with hiding out the way he did, but it looks like that's changing.
While I think Ward is improving as a writer, she does some stuff that irritates me stylistically:
Grammar quibbles: Hopefully is an adverb. It should never be used to start a sentence such as "Hopefully, something will happen." One may do something hopefully (She peered hopefully into the fridge, looking for a leftover slice of pie) but it can't hang out by itself. I guess the implied construction is "I am hopeful that..." but it is lazy writing to shorthand it down to "hopefully", IMO. And ending sentences with prepositions? Another pet peeve. Yeah, I know I do it sometimes when I blog without proof reading...except that kind of thing shouldn't make it past proofing, crit group, revisions and an editor.
A third stylistic thing: I hate that she had V tell B&M what it would take to turn him on the page, in front of the reader, and made it clear how disturbing that information was to them...but didn't share it with the reader, so we didn't know what was coming until the process started several scenes later. Was there supposed to be an element of surprise or suspense for the reader? I don't know. It seemed pretty standard for the genre; I was not particularly surprised or shocked by it, and thought in retrospect that the M&B response was overdone and that piece of the scene was awkward.
This is the first book in which the lessers seemed like something more than cardboard cut-out villains, which is a Good Thing, IMO.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
No spoilers, I promise!
Date: 2007-03-09 04:49 pm (UTC)That telling the characters but not telling the reader thing is SOOOOOO annoying, and she so doesn't need to do it. I think that scene would have been so much better if he'd told the reader, too. Or just left it out. That's really the only instance (I think? Maybe one more?) in LR. LA was full of them and they were incredibly annoying--esp. the eyes sewn shut thing and the needing time thing.
I totally wouldn't have caught, and still don't quite get the "hopefully" thing. Grammatically, technically, yes, I guess. But language changes and it's totally acceptable now. I guess I think that because I think is sounds fine. And the preposition thing is like split infinitives--artificially constructed grammar rule thought up by 18thC and 19thC scholars who liked to feel superior. Which doesn't mean I don't do my damnedest to avoid splitting infinitives, but hey.
Re: No spoilers, I promise!
Date: 2007-03-09 06:28 pm (UTC)I know the grammar things are trivial; they are just little things that I notice and then can't forget. Language is a living thing and it changes...but I cringe when I see sentences ending with "with" or hear people ask "Where is it at?" It's the pedant in me, I guess. Or maybe Mr. Clark in my highschool comp class just made a too lasting impression on my young mind.
Re: No spoilers, I promise!
Date: 2007-03-11 11:43 am (UTC)The turning process? I did notice she didn't mention it to the reader, but again, I thought it was a reasonable decision to keep the suspense. And if Marissa hadn't asked (and thus enable JRW not to mention it at all), I would have found that stupid. It's like a show where someone says, "This is what we're going to do." And then cut to break.
Re: No spoilers, I promise!
Date: 2007-03-11 12:48 pm (UTC)See, the TV version of, "This is what we're going to do" and cut to break drives me crazy. At least I'm consistent with my pet peeves :)
Re: No spoilers, I promise!
Date: 2007-03-11 01:42 pm (UTC)Oh, and lie vs. lay. Aaargh!!! My eyes were bugging out. Seriously.
*sigh* I need to stop procrastinating and post my own review. I might as well just cut and paste all my blog comments at the rate I'm going...
no subject
Date: 2007-03-09 07:37 pm (UTC)She has no one. No girlfriends or close female relative and if she had - they wouldn't discuss such things.
She SHOULD have more freedom to move now. But I think it takes her a bit to figure that out. And as soon as she does... the reaction enforces her place. uh how far along are you?
LOL hee I LOVED marissa... can you tell *g*
no subject
Date: 2007-03-09 07:54 pm (UTC)I guess the lack of information is Regency-like...but for 300 years? No dirty pictures ever? Not even a peak at a nude sculpture?
no subject
Date: 2007-03-10 06:06 am (UTC)I'm wondering if I am paranormal-ed out. I'm getting a little sick of 'humans' being slagged on so much. I think I would have also preferred that 'the turn' wasn't done. To me, becoming something other than you are is not a solution to real life problems - I would have been happier if Butch could have become happy as he was - although I could have pitched Marissa over any time she said something about his strength. Ugh. Okay, I'll have to take my ranting on home ;)
CindyS
no subject
Date: 2007-03-10 08:15 pm (UTC)The lessers were better this time, I thought. Less time spent on them, but better developed and the scenes were more to the point.
I'm wondering about the whole blood-drinking thing though, and it's relationship to sex. From whom do single women drink? And what about V -- who said that he never fed anyone? Doesn't it all have to equal out? What about the Chosen who feed the warriors? From whom do they feed? Inquiring minds....
no subject
Date: 2007-03-11 12:11 am (UTC)Here are my questions:
1. If vamps are impervious to human viruses, how did Marissa get the "flu" when Butch came to see her those many months ago? And if it's a vamp flu, how come no one else seems to have gotten it?
2. How could Butch even have wanted Marissa to drink his blood (before he was turned) when he was still cutting himself to see if it was black? Oh, that frustrated me!
3. Why does Ward vascillate between using Christian exclamations and vamp ones (Christ v. Virgin in the Fade) in the vamps' expressions? The switching back and forth seems more a lack of control over the writing than anything meaninful, especially when Marissa does it (heck, if the woman can go 300 years without seeing a penis, certaily her expressions would reflect such old-fashioned seclusion, as well!).
4. Speaking of Marissa's innocence, how is it that she experiences sex the first time as a human woman should, but by the time Butch has changed, and Marissa is still quite new to the game, she's like nickel lined, fully exandable, and turbo charged?
FWIW, I split infinitives and end sentences with prepositions a lot. I agree with Sarah that both rules have been somewhat relaxed, even though every time I break them, I wince at the mental voice of the grammar police (who most often appears in the form of my grad school Chaucer professor).
Robin
no subject
Date: 2007-03-11 11:51 am (UTC)1. JRW mentioned (I think in Sybil's Q&A? Too lazy to check) that Marissa's flu was of the vamp kind. Havers is a doctor so I assume he managed to contain it? *lol* Maybe they have better flu remedies.
2 & 3. These bothered me, too! I wondered if there was a pattern to the exclamations but was too lazy to check for sure.
4. That didn't bother me so much, but reading your comments has made me wonder how Marissa went through transition (and the ensuing horniness) without getting some action.
no subject
Date: 2007-03-11 01:03 pm (UTC)I just picked up Dark Lover for a re-read, which I hadn't previously done. [In fact, I hadn't re-read any of the 3 earlier books.] In one scene, Marissa reflects that she has Havers drug her during her needing periods, but there's no mention of her transition.
I forgot to mention in my review -- every time a "pre-trans" is mentioned, I think of a transvestite or a pre-operative transsexual, not a pre-transition vampire. Can't help it.
~jmc
no subject
Date: 2007-03-11 01:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-03-11 01:00 pm (UTC)1. I assumed (foolish me) that the flu wasn't a human illness, that even though they can't catch human viruses, there are still illnesses of their own. Otherwise why have a physician?
2. Hadn't thought of the black blood at all, but now that you mention it, Butch's behavior seems very inconsistent.
3. I noticed the different curses, but hadn't really thought about them seriously. The first time I ran across a "christ," I wondered about the theology of the BDB, and whether the two (Christian & whatever you might term the Scribe Virgin, if she is a deity) were mutually exclusive.
4. I have that same question about many, many heroines. If I could jump into their storys a la Thursday Next, I'd want to pull each heroine aside and ask if they had bionic parts.
On the prepositions at the end of the sentence, I do it when speaking, but when writing and given any opportunity to proof read or edit (or when I am not in a sloppy rush to post), I rewrite to avoid the problem. It's one of the few grammar rules that has stuck in my head.
~jmc
no subject
Date: 2007-03-11 05:05 pm (UTC)Part of the problem for me is that "flu" means "influenza," which is a very specific human virus. But overall, this is really where you either hang with the worldbuilding or you don't (obviously I don't completely). Vamps can be physically injured (thus the doctor, I thought), but they can't get human viruses. And yet no one else seems to get sick in the books -- and we don't hear about the great vampire flu outbreak of '55, or anything. How about bacteria -- are they susceptible to that? And is it special vamp bacteria? Plus I kept thinking that if there were certain vamp viruses, why haven't the lessers gotten into bio warfare? After all, this is an apocalyptic struggle, no? And I get that the vamps aren't dead in the same way we think of many other vampire types, but it doesn't all make total sense to me the way Ward draws it, either.
As for the cursing, Marissa most often uses "Dear Virgin in the Fade" and other related phrases, because, after all, she's not Christian. So the occasional "Christ" or "My God" jerked me out of the book. When the Brothers do it, I notice less, since they are such students of contemporary vernacular (however ridiculous), although even there the great emphasis they place on spiritual ritual and manners around the Scribe Virgin seems to suggest -- to me, anyway -- that Christian swearing would be blasphemous on several levels.
I was talking to a friend yesterday about LR, and she felt that the strongest Romance was really that between Butch and Vishous, so the book failed for her *as a Romance*. And I gotta agree, somewhat. In many ways, I thought the sparks between Butch and V were much more vividly portrayed, even though Butch remains somewhat blind to the whole thing for most of the book. I almost laughed out loud at that little "culmination" scene between the two, especially the book's insistence that this "path" would NEVER EVER EVER "be walked!" LOL -- does that mean we can't point out all the other homoerotic elements to the series (because, seriously, they are among the most interesting, IMO). A lot of that stuff is what keeps me reading.
Also, anyone notice how much less rap/hip hop there was in this book?
no subject
Date: 2007-03-12 07:37 pm (UTC)I didn't notice until I went back and skimmed Dark Lover which drops song titles all over the place. I wonder if it was a choice because of the focus on a human hero who was on the outside of the BDB world, looking in, or if it was a response to all of the comments (many of them critical) about the BDB's music choices? There's probably a thread somewhere on Ward's MB addressing this, but I'm not curious enough to brave the voluminous posts to find out.
no subject
Date: 2007-03-11 05:06 pm (UTC)Robin
no subject
Date: 2007-03-12 01:20 pm (UTC)The phrasing/stylistic thing that did drive me nuts was the proliferation of sentences structured like this: "he so would have preferred...", "she so would have been happy..." I did think that the slang was a bit more under control this time.
Devon
Oh, just because the Butch/Vishous thing is pretty much resolved does not mean that I will stop pointing out the hoyay any time I can
no subject
Date: 2007-03-12 07:41 pm (UTC)Yes, I'm still wishing for some B/V action, despite the road not taken resolution. There's got to be some kind of BDB slash fanfic somewhere on the 'net. Certainly there's just about every other kind out there somewhere ;)
no subject
Date: 2007-03-13 11:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-03-14 02:38 am (UTC)Strangely enough, Sam/Alyssa and Max and Gina are my favorite SB couples, so the dragging things out does work for me sometimes.
Devon
no subject
Date: 2007-03-13 05:02 pm (UTC)Robin
no subject
Date: 2007-03-13 06:22 pm (UTC)I hadn't thought of the problem as being mundane vs. outrageous/OTT, but you've got me thinking about it now.
I've read two of Ward's category books written under her other name (real name? another pseudonym?). The first book I read, From the First, irritated the hell out of me. I read it after Lover Eternal and noted Ward/Bird's use of fertility/sterility to solve problems, along with birth control stupidity. I thought it was a forgettable book, really, with forgettable characters. In the follow up book, A Man in a Million, Mad & Spike were both over the top characters. I read somewhere that Spike was supposed to have a bit of vampire blood; he had the yellow eyes and tattoos, and a cool profession --celebrity chef-- tho' little is made of it in the book. Mad was a professional athlete and a poor little rich girl on the side. I liked AMiaM slightly better, despite the fact that yet another stupid birth control cliche was used. So maybe Ward/Bird's talent is about larger than life characters.
~jmc
no subject
Date: 2007-03-14 04:08 am (UTC)Robin
no subject
Date: 2007-03-14 11:38 am (UTC)Хороший пост.
Date: 2011-08-23 09:43 am (UTC)